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Shakey1980
Guest
Nice car Andy and thanks for the products, like I say I can't wait to try them out. Weather's looking good for tomorrow at least, so hoping to get everything done before the rain on Sunday!
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Neston_Vasey
Guest
Cheers fella.....................Sorry about the Parcel Force error that's out of my remit, made up you have recieved them before the weekend and hope the weather holds out for you. As said before; do a panel at a time, it will give you a fer better finish as you will no feel the need to rush to complete the car as fatigue sets in (and it will).
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Shakey1980
Guest
No probs mate, I only blame Parcel Force for being rubbish 
Rained here this morning so didn't get eth early start I needed any way Oh well, at least I have the gear now, just need to await my chance!
Thanks again!
Rained here this morning so didn't get eth early start I needed any way
Oh well, at least I have the gear now, just need to await my chance!Thanks again!
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Shakey1980
Guest
Despite today having been forecast all week nearly as being rain all day, last night the all knowing weather men changed their minds to no rain! So I took my chance and got to work on my wife's car with my new Poorboy's products for the first time. I stuck to my plan I'd mentioned before and in order I did the following:
Wash
PB's Elastic Clay Bar
Pro Polish
Black Hole Glaze
Natty's Blue Wax
I then used Spray and Rinse on the much neglected wheels. They were a worry actually as from having brake dust left on them for a long time in the past they had kind of yellowed and up until now I'd failed to shift it with regular washing. I was really pleased with how they came up but by this point I ran out of time so couldn't get them spotless. Next time I clean the car I'll give them a proper toothbrush clean and then I'll apply some wheel sealant. One thing, I found it quite hard to use the spray as the jet was so fine, I might try and find a spray nozzle that allows more of a spread.
Anyway, despite a little bit of apprehension the clay bar worked a treat and seemed very easy to use. I used lubricant (Spray and Wipe) liberally but it wasn't long until I figured out how much I needed, as it was I used half a bottle but I think I can be more economical in the future. It's amazing how much crap you get off the car with a clay bar!
The Pro Polish, was a bit tougher to get on and buff off, but was ok once I got going. In fact, this was probably my favourite product of the day. I loved what it did to the paint but loved what it did to the plastics even more!! Whether headlight covers, black plastics, chrome finish plastic or glass it all came up like new! I was extremely impressed.
The Black Hole Glaze went on and came off easy, it didn't really seem like it was doing much although it did buff up to a great shine. I can't wait to use this on my black car and see what it can do.
Finally, Natty's Blue smells awesome I liked using a paste rather than a liquid wax as I felt as though I had more control, it went on easy but man was it tough to buff off! As this was the last thing to go on and I'd done everything by hand, this was finishing me off I thought I was using a small amount but don't know if I was actually using too much as it was so hard to buff off? Anyway, got it done and was really pleased with the final shine and my wife was too
Below are a few photos, it was really overcast today and not sunny at all so I didn't bother with any 'before' shots except for one of the wheels, I only took a couple of after shots too to try and show the amazing reflections I'm getting int eh paint now. When I go again on my car in a few weeks hopefully it'll be sunnier and I can post some better shots in the bragging forum.
So, after just over fours hours and a lot of elbow grease this is what I managed to do, it's not the most glamorous car and it's a daily driver that's been cleaned very infrequently in the past, I'm really pleased with the results:
Wheel before:
Wheel after a liberal spray of 'Spray and Rinse' and no scrubbing at all:
Wash
PB's Elastic Clay Bar
Pro Polish
Black Hole Glaze
Natty's Blue Wax
I then used Spray and Rinse on the much neglected wheels. They were a worry actually as from having brake dust left on them for a long time in the past they had kind of yellowed and up until now I'd failed to shift it with regular washing. I was really pleased with how they came up but by this point I ran out of time so couldn't get them spotless. Next time I clean the car I'll give them a proper toothbrush clean and then I'll apply some wheel sealant. One thing, I found it quite hard to use the spray as the jet was so fine, I might try and find a spray nozzle that allows more of a spread.
Anyway, despite a little bit of apprehension the clay bar worked a treat and seemed very easy to use. I used lubricant (Spray and Wipe) liberally but it wasn't long until I figured out how much I needed, as it was I used half a bottle but I think I can be more economical in the future. It's amazing how much crap you get off the car with a clay bar!
The Pro Polish, was a bit tougher to get on and buff off, but was ok once I got going. In fact, this was probably my favourite product of the day. I loved what it did to the paint but loved what it did to the plastics even more!! Whether headlight covers, black plastics, chrome finish plastic or glass it all came up like new! I was extremely impressed.
The Black Hole Glaze went on and came off easy, it didn't really seem like it was doing much although it did buff up to a great shine. I can't wait to use this on my black car and see what it can do.
Finally, Natty's Blue smells awesome
I liked using a paste rather than a liquid wax as I felt as though I had more control, it went on easy but man was it tough to buff off! As this was the last thing to go on and I'd done everything by hand, this was finishing me off I thought I was using a small amount but don't know if I was actually using too much as it was so hard to buff off? Anyway, got it done and was really pleased with the final shine and my wife was too Below are a few photos, it was really overcast today and not sunny at all so I didn't bother with any 'before' shots except for one of the wheels, I only took a couple of after shots too to try and show the amazing reflections I'm getting int eh paint now. When I go again on my car in a few weeks hopefully it'll be sunnier and I can post some better shots in the bragging forum.
So, after just over fours hours and a lot of elbow grease this is what I managed to do, it's not the most glamorous car and it's a daily driver that's been cleaned very infrequently in the past, I'm really pleased with the results:
Wheel before:
Wheel after a liberal spray of 'Spray and Rinse' and no scrubbing at all:
Turned out great. Not too sure what spray head you got with the SnR. In the past I used the Heavy Duty Adjustable Chemical Resistant Sprayer ( from the PB site ) with good luck. This year I got some agri pro double mist sprayers from a vet supply place ( dog groomers & horse stables use them ). I just mount the sprayer to the SnR bottle, and turn the nozzle in until I get a stream I like. When I am done, I run some water through it, and mount it back on the bottle for the next time.
dad uses a pressure bottle sprayer now ( for garden work ). He dumps ~ .75 L into the bottle, few pumps and goes at it. These can get to a useless fine mist, they adjust down so far.
If you use PB wheel sealant, I think you need to cut SnR 1:1 with water ( else it works the sealant off ), so once you get to that point, remember to dilute it by 50%.
Clay lube, I think I read a thread on here, where people make up a bottle of water:SnW at 2:1 or 1:1 ratio ( drawing a blank at the moment ). I buy it by the gallon, so I go at it straight ( un-cut ) .
Hard to say if you should have went BH or WD on that color paint. I don't know if you would get that much depth out of it, so I might have went the all pop method of Natty's Red & WD ( 3 layers ). I just did a test section on my truck ( Dark Stone ) and it really pops, but it looks 2 mm thick on a dark color. If you are picking up some wheel sealant, get some Natty's Red also. It is a nice addition to a dark color last after some BH - Natty's Blue layers to help give the depth created some pop. I did this the last test on the front clip, and it works great. Another nice one is to chill some SnG and lightly spray the panel before applying NAtty's Blue. Steve calls it the "Spit Shine" application method.
If you are having an issue removing Natty's could be 1 of 2 things. The towel being used or too much product. If you think you were thin enough, could be you were using too long of a NAP towel. If you were using the short side of a DMT towel, then you put too much on. I find thin to the point of almost not covering the paint works best. 2 thin coats and let it sit for 24 hours before doing the next layer of BH and Natty's Blue.
All in all, turned out great for going at it by hand. ProPolish is my go to. I have not picked up a SSR since I figured out what I was doing wrong with PP, and just got some PP2 for that serious stuff. I use some other products with MF pads ( not the M company ) , but std foam I still go with PP.
dad uses a pressure bottle sprayer now ( for garden work ). He dumps ~ .75 L into the bottle, few pumps and goes at it. These can get to a useless fine mist, they adjust down so far.
If you use PB wheel sealant, I think you need to cut SnR 1:1 with water ( else it works the sealant off ), so once you get to that point, remember to dilute it by 50%.
Clay lube, I think I read a thread on here, where people make up a bottle of water:SnW at 2:1 or 1:1 ratio ( drawing a blank at the moment ). I buy it by the gallon, so I go at it straight ( un-cut ) .
Hard to say if you should have went BH or WD on that color paint. I don't know if you would get that much depth out of it, so I might have went the all pop method of Natty's Red & WD ( 3 layers ). I just did a test section on my truck ( Dark Stone ) and it really pops, but it looks 2 mm thick on a dark color. If you are picking up some wheel sealant, get some Natty's Red also. It is a nice addition to a dark color last after some BH - Natty's Blue layers to help give the depth created some pop. I did this the last test on the front clip, and it works great. Another nice one is to chill some SnG and lightly spray the panel before applying NAtty's Blue. Steve calls it the "Spit Shine" application method.
If you are having an issue removing Natty's could be 1 of 2 things. The towel being used or too much product. If you think you were thin enough, could be you were using too long of a NAP towel. If you were using the short side of a DMT towel, then you put too much on. I find thin to the point of almost not covering the paint works best. 2 thin coats and let it sit for 24 hours before doing the next layer of BH and Natty's Blue.
All in all, turned out great for going at it by hand. ProPolish is my go to. I have not picked up a SSR since I figured out what I was doing wrong with PP, and just got some PP2 for that serious stuff. I use some other products with MF pads ( not the M company ) , but std foam I still go with PP.
Very nice work ... I can't add much other than you may have tried to remove the blue before it was ready. I do a pinky test .. if the wax comes off with just the touch of your pinky then it is ready, if it smears or is hard to remove then you need to wait a bit longer. You can also do the spit shine as mentioned above.
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Shakey1980
Guest
Thanks very much for the advice and comments guys. I feel like I learned quite a lot doing this car.
I'll try and find another nozzle as I think some adjustability of the spray would be very useful. Thanks for the Spray & Rinse dilution advice, pretty handy as I have half a bottle left so I'll just fill it up with water now
As for the WD, I very nearly bought some but as I was buying stuff for this car and my (black) car I just went with the BH and Natty's Blue as I couldn't afford to buy two lots of product, that said I think now I'm set up with a lot of kit next time I might at least get some Natty's Red.
Yeah, the PP is great. As I said, yesterday was a very grey and overcast day so the photos don't really do justice to the shine I got on the car, but you can really see how great the chrome plastics look, they haven't looked like that in years. In fact, we bought the car 2nd hand and I don't think we've ever had them look so good
I will definitely take up your advice on the wax. I did use a DMT to buff off but in some places I was scrubbing with two hands to get the wax off! I love the idea of multiple layers but if it was that hard to buff each time then that wouldn't be happening. I did work quite fast as I was running out of time, so I started applying the car with wax on one side and then worked round, as soon as I got to the start again I began waxing. The wax was also smearing a little, so how long would you say the wax should be left on before buffing?
I'll try and find another nozzle as I think some adjustability of the spray would be very useful. Thanks for the Spray & Rinse dilution advice, pretty handy as I have half a bottle left so I'll just fill it up with water now
As for the WD, I very nearly bought some but as I was buying stuff for this car and my (black) car I just went with the BH and Natty's Blue as I couldn't afford to buy two lots of product, that said I think now I'm set up with a lot of kit next time I might at least get some Natty's Red.
Yeah, the PP is great. As I said, yesterday was a very grey and overcast day so the photos don't really do justice to the shine I got on the car, but you can really see how great the chrome plastics look, they haven't looked like that in years. In fact, we bought the car 2nd hand and I don't think we've ever had them look so good
I will definitely take up your advice on the wax. I did use a DMT to buff off but in some places I was scrubbing with two hands to get the wax off! I love the idea of multiple layers but if it was that hard to buff each time then that wouldn't be happening. I did work quite fast as I was running out of time, so I started applying the car with wax on one side and then worked round, as soon as I got to the start again I began waxing. The wax was also smearing a little, so how long would you say the wax should be left on before buffing?
Completely understandable, this is a hobby that can get real expensive real quick if you do not keep yourself in check.
I don't even want to know how much I have invested in pads and MF towels, let alone the
Don't know if your dist-d in the UK carries the PB samples. This is one way to try some WD before you get on with buying a bottle, to know if it is going to do anything different.
Dry time is one of those "depends' things.
Temperature and Humidity along with thickness of the layer will play into how long until ready to remove.
Attached are some pictures I took real quick this AM. One is the amount I apply, which is almost too much ( from what I have found works best for me ), then 2 pictures of drying time with the high humidity we have at the moment ( rained quite a bit last night and still "standard" UK weather at the moment ).
This is just to give a visual starting point.
The other question is what are you using to apply it ?
I use the red foam hand pads that PB had on the site.
I cut the pad into quarters and rub it in a circular motion fairly fast in the jar until it starts to liquefy, I can pick up quite a bit of product on the pad. I run a line down the center of the application area, and then use a back and forth motion perpendicular to the line I started with.
This gets the product on the section fairly even, might need to work in an odd shape section, depends on how much product I got to liquefy with circular motion of the pad in the jar.
Just some random thoughts from me, does not make them correct.
I don't even want to know how much I have invested in pads and MF towels, let alone the
Don't know if your dist-d in the UK carries the PB samples. This is one way to try some WD before you get on with buying a bottle, to know if it is going to do anything different.
Dry time is one of those "depends' things.
Temperature and Humidity along with thickness of the layer will play into how long until ready to remove.
Attached are some pictures I took real quick this AM. One is the amount I apply, which is almost too much ( from what I have found works best for me ), then 2 pictures of drying time with the high humidity we have at the moment ( rained quite a bit last night and still "standard" UK weather at the moment ).
This is just to give a visual starting point.
The other question is what are you using to apply it ?
I use the red foam hand pads that PB had on the site.
I cut the pad into quarters and rub it in a circular motion fairly fast in the jar until it starts to liquefy, I can pick up quite a bit of product on the pad. I run a line down the center of the application area, and then use a back and forth motion perpendicular to the line I started with.
This gets the product on the section fairly even, might need to work in an odd shape section, depends on how much product I got to liquefy with circular motion of the pad in the jar.
Just some random thoughts from me, does not make them correct.
As Steve mentioned, test it to see how easily it comes off. The time it takes is dependent upon the weather/humidity etc. so there isn't a definitive time answer.
Edit: I see sscully beat me to the answer.
As Steve mentioned, test it to see how easily it comes off. The time it takes is dependent upon the weather/humidity etc. so there isn't a definitive time answer.
Edit: I see sscully beat me to the answer.
That post ( due to day job getting in the way ) took almost 1 hour to finish. Reads like I started and stopped too :smt107
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Shakey1980
Guest
Thanks guys, well in short it sounds as though I was doing something wrong as the wax shouldn't be that hard to remove? I wonder if I actually didn't leave it long enough. Regardless, the finger wipe test thing looks like a great technique to try next time. Oh, and I used a slightly damp foam applicator to apply the wax.
Thanks for taking the time to post those photos sscully, they're really helpful.
Thanks for taking the time to post those photos sscully, they're really helpful.
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Shakey1980
Guest
Thanks! I must say, I was thinking 'I need to get a machine polisher' when I was buffing that wax!
Thanks! I must say, I was thinking 'I need to get a machine polisher' when I was buffing that wax!
How does the saying, " The moment just before the pain" ?
This is how it starts; DA with a 5" backing plate, then add in a 2-3/4" backing plate maybe a 4", then a flex with the LC backing plate system then a rotary....:smt103
The one thing I do different with Natty's paste, is I do not damp the applicator before I start. I guess I get that function by rubbing it in a circle fairly quick to start to liquefy it. Once the pad gets 5 rounds, it is good and damp only with Natty's. That is just me, again does not make it right. I am still correcting errors I made up in using the product in the past.
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Neston_Vasey
Guest
I've always dampened pads / cloths for application but not on Natty's, with it being a paste you just don't get the soak in as you do with something in a liquid form.
I've got many people who are having the same issue with Natty's, I've never had a problem personally, I've always cycled cloths (some people try to use 1 cloth for the whole car, I get a panel or two (size dependant) per cloth. Main problem is everyone applying too much to actually see the application of the wax, I've always said less is more and by that you should only see a haze on the paint rather than big thick swirls and build up the protection with layers rather than trying to dollop loads on at once.
It takes getting used to and I still end up applying too much myself as fatigue sets in. But when done right the wax just comes straight off with a quick wipe, I even find that when done wrong it's still easier to get off that the 'traditional UK waxes' (the white stuff that dries as chalk over the prepared surface).
Another issue I find people are having is 'chalking' of Natty's, again this is applying too thick and using a neat / short pile cloth.
I've got many people who are having the same issue with Natty's, I've never had a problem personally, I've always cycled cloths (some people try to use 1 cloth for the whole car, I get a panel or two (size dependant) per cloth. Main problem is everyone applying too much to actually see the application of the wax, I've always said less is more and by that you should only see a haze on the paint rather than big thick swirls and build up the protection with layers rather than trying to dollop loads on at once.
It takes getting used to and I still end up applying too much myself as fatigue sets in. But when done right the wax just comes straight off with a quick wipe, I even find that when done wrong it's still easier to get off that the 'traditional UK waxes' (the white stuff that dries as chalk over the prepared surface).
Another issue I find people are having is 'chalking' of Natty's, again this is applying too thick and using a neat / short pile cloth.
I have also seen this over the years and there is a learning curve on each application. Between humidity and other variables there is no exact time to leave it on. I usually shoot for a half hour to a hour ... some leave it overnight .. and some do the spit shine and don't wait at all ...
If it is hard at all it has not finished flashing. Another point that is also very true is the use of too few or too poor of quality to do the work correctly and effortlessly. That's why when we travel we take our own towels
S
Shakey1980
Guest
Thanks again guys, it does sound like my problem with Natty's was putting it on too thick so I'll definitely be more careful next time, I'm learning though! If the wax is that easy to buff off when applied thinly then I wouldn't mind doing several coats. Out of curiosity, does one thin layer of Natty's provide satisfactory protection? In other words, if in a hurry and can only manage one application, although you might not achieve the same shine, will your paint and hard work be adequately protected.
By the way, I used Poor Boy's Deluxe Mega Towel to buff.
If the wax is that easy to buff off when applied thinly then I wouldn't mind doing several coats. Out of curiosity, does one thin layer of Natty's provide satisfactory protection? In other words, if in a hurry and can only manage one application, although you might not achieve the same shine, will your paint and hard work be adequately protected.By the way, I used Poor Boy's Deluxe Mega Towel to buff.
I have never tried anything other than 2 thin coats at the start of the layering.
If I am not layering, the 2 thin coats works out well. I have never tried the long term durability test with the product, as I am going at it again in 2 months, always have to mess with the finish on my paint, can't leave it alone
I would say 1 coat would work, but going at it thin, this is where one might miss a small section ( fingernail sized area not covered ).
I am going to pontificate that missing that small spot will might an effect on the durability, as water could get under the wax, but that is just a SWAG on my part.
If you only have time to do 1 coat at the time, go at it. When you get a chance again ( next wash or a SnW cleaning ) go at it with another 1 or 2 coats of Natty's.
If I am not layering, the 2 thin coats works out well. I have never tried the long term durability test with the product, as I am going at it again in 2 months, always have to mess with the finish on my paint, can't leave it alone
I would say 1 coat would work, but going at it thin, this is where one might miss a small section ( fingernail sized area not covered ).
I am going to pontificate that missing that small spot will might an effect on the durability, as water could get under the wax, but that is just a SWAG on my part.
If you only have time to do 1 coat at the time, go at it. When you get a chance again ( next wash or a SnW cleaning ) go at it with another 1 or 2 coats of Natty's.