Application of Natty's after QW+ / QD+

[sscully]

Tried a few search terms, found a suggestion of a URL to read that is not on the site anymore or got moved.
- BigLeegr if you recall the URL you used for intro work, it might have my answer.

My question is on applying Natty's blue after a series of QW+ or QD+ then a wash.

Is there something I should do to the paint prior to reapplying Natty's blue after having coated it a few times in QW+ or QD+ ?

I am asking due to reading threads in the order of application.
I did not see any threads where it should not be done, just the order of operations like don't put EX or EX-P over Nattys.

I did find where 3 coats per day of QD+ or QW+ is fine, but I don't have access to the vehicles like that :mrgreen:

In process of making my application cheat sheet, and want to make sure I get the notes section correct.

 

[wallywax]

Is your paint in need of a polishing? I never had any problems layering natty's over anything. If you want to remove the QW and QD I would polish with PwC blue. Then go to town with the natty's.

 

[sscully]

Sorry, should have included that.

This is say 1 month after doing a full out process.
- Clay
- Pro Polish ( and SSR1 if needed )
- PwC-Blue ( dark vehicles )
- BH
- EX
- Natty's Blue
- Liquid Natty Blue

Then start the QW+ / QD+ after washes or after SnW.

So there is no impact to putting Nattys over QW+ / QD+ / SnS

Would the same be true if I were to do layers of BH & Nattys ( which would be starting with BH on QW+ )

Just trying to get some application notes for the short cut sheet I am making.

Thanks for the info to date, very helpful

 

[BigLeegr]

As mentioned, a quick application of a 1 step like Pwc or PwS will help give you a "clean slate" to work with without taking too much extra time. If the vehicle is not needing polishing you can apply the Natty's over applications of QW+ or QD+. The biggest worry would likely be a shorter longevity (if the QW+ was on its last legs or something, but then, you should be using a polish at that time anyway.)

 

[BigLeegr]

There's going to be a law of diminishing returns playing here with constant applications of glaze/wax or spray wax/wax, so after a while you will need to polish off the build up and start over. But the exact time to start over will be up to you, as different people have different tastes/expectations/etc.

 

[sscully]

So what my take away is ( 2 of 2 application opinions ) is that pretty much after I am shifting to QD+ or QW+ I should lay off the Nattys unless I hit the paint with PwC-Blue and start over the process again. Else I should have gotten the large can of Natty's blue instead of the small one.

With this info, is going to the PwC- Blue on a white pad going to take me back to the EX layer, or will it remove this also and I should consider this the PwC- Blue step as above and go BH, EX and then back to Nattys again ? ( that would be my guess, but I guess that could depend on how many coats of what I have on it at the time ).

Another OT item, as long as BigLeegr brought up the topic of constant applications;
Am I correct in the layer of BH and Nattys, that the BH ( in this case ) is done by hand, and not a machine as not to remove the Nattys that is on the vehicle ?
This is not so much working it in like polish, but more so used in a layering manor ( else I would think working it in would for sure remove the Nattys that i am trying to layer with )
- I found several posts to layering and the application usage when used prior to EX or EX-P, but I have not found the search term to get me to layering with Nattys and application parameters.

I do the BH; worked in with a red pad at ~ 4 / 4.5 speed after the PwC Blue step, as noted above, as a normal course.

 

[wallywax]

I find that Black hole works great at slow speeds. I recommend trying it on setting 2 on the pc with a finishing pad or finessing pad. Only needs about 2 passes on each panel and it does a nice job of filling. Try layering the BH and natty's and see how it comes out. I am guessing it might alter the durability of the sealant and wax but since you seem to constantly have some sort of protection on the car that shouldn't really matter. That is the fun part about this hobby called detailing Its all about trying new and different things! Especially on your own cars.

 

[BigLeegr]

How much is removed with PwC and a white pad depends on the speed and the pressure used as well as how long the previous coats have been on and how long you polish. You might not remove the EX, but more than likely at least some part will be removed, and likely most/all of it will be gone.

BH can be used by machine, but as Walter mentioned, go with a slow speed and mild pad. If you are layering in rapid succession anyway, even if you remove a bit of wax applying the glaze, you will still come out ahead. Don't forget, this is just wax we're talking about. Wax leaves a very thin layer behind. It's not armor!

 

[sscully]

Good to know on the PwC restart. I would take a stab that I was going too long on Nattys - QW+ / QD+ instead of starting over again.

In terms of BH for the 1st application ( between PwC Blue and EX ). That is when you are running at a slow speed with a Finishing pad ?
- I read the threads where members had the fast and work in with a finishing pad to get the best results.
- I started out applying BH with a black pad ( layer like wax ) at slow speed prior to reading those threads.

 

[BigLeegr]

The faster you work it in, the more friction there is, the more risk of removing whatever is underneath.

 

[sscully]

The faster you work it in, the more friction there is, the more risk of removing whatever is underneath.

For the case of layering, this is why I was applying BH by hand with a red pad.
At this stage, it is using the BH to layer in with wax.

If you think it is safe to run a red pad on 2, I can try that next time.
I just finished 3 layers of BH - Nattys, after the 2 thin coats of Nattys post BH above post polish. I did reach that cross over where the last coat did not have a marked improvement over the previous one.
I did not realize that I had 4 coats of layering, I just started counting after finishing a complete run with the steps above, less the Liquid blue. I did not perform the liquid blue step before layering.

For the case of post polish ( pre LSP ) , shouldn't there really be nothing on the paint, if one were to want the fillers to do any work ?

 

[BigLeegr]

Yes.

 

[sscully]

Question on layering with a red pad at speed setting #2, should I only do this with my PC or is it OK to use the Flex 3401 ?

I am asking if I should avoid the forced rotation from the flex in this use case. Low enough speed that I don't think pad stall or lack of is a big deal.

Just trying to remove the supposition and conjecture that I have somehow turned into fact.

 

[Poorboy]

I just want to interject here .. I don't believe you can layer anything with a machine .. as stated earlier, the machine with virtually any pad will cause friction.
With a red finishing pad you might add a little at very low speed 1-2 max , but for the most part by hand is better for layering ..just my 2 cents

 

[sscully]

I kind of did the brain damaged route to this, hand application of the wax, hand application of the glaze. Seemed to make sense to me, but I have been working from supposition and creativity on how things pair on my own prior to now.

Turned out doing the Nattys Blue with a red applicator pad and the BH with a red applicator pad.

Took these today on my way out the house.

There is a distinct delta from the hood / front fenders to the doors. The layers are on the hood and front fenders only ( with a bit of feathering to the front door ).
Took a bit of time doing a layer of BH and then Nattys ( 2 thin ) and then wait a bit ( 2 to 12 hours depending on work schedule ) to add the next layer.

In the spring when it is time to start over, I am going to align the schedule so I can do the whole truck at one time.
I found a few defects that I need to take out when I do it next ( not going to bother doing it now ).