Nattys Blue Paste leaving smears

[Tequipment]

At the weekend my brother (who does this for a living) went over my Phantom Black 2010 Audi A3 with 3 stages of compound and his rotary. The results were astounding and better than how if would've left the factory.

I decided not to use my Poorboys Black Hole glaze as there weren't any swirls/holograms and went straight to the Nattys Blue Paste. I used a damp Meguiars foam pad and put on a VERY light layer. From reviews and clips on youtube, it works best when left in the sun to haze over and they were right. It wiped off with one pass of my mf cloth. I'm certain I didn't use too much as I was overly conscious of this and hardly used any from the pot.

After I'd been all round the car and given it a buffing over I noticed what looked like swirl marks. I wiped it again and they disappeared. I then noticed that they were only there when I wiped it in one direction and were actually smears. It was almost like there was an oily film that was only visible when at the right angle in the sun.

I had this the day before when I waxed my black Boxster and put it down to either the mf towels I had being too course, or not using enough clean mf towels.

Is there any reason this is happening?
I'm a bit of a novice at this, so it's more than likely that I'm doing something wrong.
I've got some Autosmart Reglaze Cleaner Polish Dressing that I've got in a squirty bottle, but was worried that although this contains carnauba I might end up removing the Nattys if I used that to remove the smeariness.
Would misting the car with water and buffing off like I used to with Zymol Cleaner Wax help, or am I running the risk of removing wax again? My other thought was to get some QW+ and try going over it with that. Ideally I'd like to work out where I've gone wrong though as I'm sure the Nattys shouldn't behave like this.

Any advice would be gratefully received.

 

[Poorboy]

did you wash the car after your brother compounded? if not the oils in some compounds could be part of the issue. I prefer not to use a damp pad and only use the Natty's as the primer . You could try the damp towel wipe down, but I suspect the Natty's is encountering something under it and not allowing it to "grab on" per se to the finish .. btw what was the temperature and weather conditions?

 

[Tequipment]

Yes, the car was given a good wash after compounding to get rid of any splatter and residue. I don't think it was the compound though, as I had the issue on the Porsche as well and this wasn't compounded.

Here's a summary of the steps I did on each car:

The Porsche had been polished with Zymol cleaner wax last summer, but I thought that'd all gone as when I washed it it didn't bead at all. It only gets used for a few weeks of the year in the summer and is garaged the rest of the time.
I started by washing it with a some Zymol shampoo and dried it. I then used a DA with a black pad to go over the whole car with Blackhole. After this I used the Nattys Blue paste with one of those foam pads.

The Audi was compounded with 3M products using the green, yellow and blue. It was then washed with some Turtlewax Zipwax shampoo and dried. We then went over the car with a coat of Natty Blue paste. Like I said, the haze came off well, but left this smearing.

The weather wasn't very British at all. Both days I worked on the cars the temperature was about 27-30C (80-86F I think) and humidity was about 50%. The some of the panels on the car were hot to touch after only a very short time in the sun. I know most of your products can be used in the sun, but maybe the panels on a black car were too hot.


I need to put a second layer of wax on the Porsche, but have held off until I can figure out what I'm doing wrong.

 

[Tequipment]

I know I've mentioned a lot of other brands of products here, but I'm new to this level of detailing and didn't know any better :sad:
I've only just discovered Poorboys stuff, so will be gradually stocking up on your range.

 

[Poorboy]

thanks for the info ... it is hard to be exact without being there, but here are just a couple thoughts ..it may have been the heat and after initial buffing it probably needed to be left alone for a while to actually cure ... usually a cool evening or a light rinse of cool water will do the trick .. wax will smear under certain heat conditions, again not being there I can't say for sure, but you may want to use something like EX in the summer which is a sealant/ wax.
There are only two common factors I see is the soap that may be leaving a wax/ residue behind,
or your towels could also be the problem, as we had a similar problem when attending a show and borrowing
the host's "fine" microfiber, which just made the work almost impossible...

Go for the second coat but try a spit shine method ...here's the quick of it
chill a bottle of Spray & Gloss or water if S&G is not available to you ...
Spritz a tiny amount then apply the Natty's ... then buff immediately ...

 

[Tequipment]

Thanks for the ideas. I appreciate it's very difficult to diagnose things from thousands of miles away, but you've given me a few things to work on.
I've ordered some new microfibre cloths as I think my first ones weren't ideal and I'll give your spit shine method a go at the weekend. The Porsche has been in the garage so should be a lot cooler next time.

I've just got a question about this bit
"it may have been the heat and after initial buffing it probably needed to be left alone for a while to actually cure ... usually a cool evening or a light rinse of cool water will do the trick"

Do you mean that I should buff off the haze and then leave it a while longer before trying to get the smears off? Or do you mean I should leave it alone longer before I even try to remove the haze?
I waxed the whole car before going round an buffing, but maybe that wasn't enough time. I'm used to not leaving wax on too longer or it becomes one with the car.

 

[Poorboy]

after you apply the wax needs to flash, or have a white haze ... I teach the "pinky test" .. if the wax is ready to remove, you should be able to touch it with your small finger at it should come off without a smear .. if it is smeary, then it wasn't left on long enough ... Natty's is so super easy to remove after it has flashed. If it is not wiping right off then it needed some more time.. There are variables of heat, cold and humidity for each person that is not the same as everyone, which makes each project have a learning curve. What works one day may not work as well or could work better on a different day.
I am sorry to say there is no clear cut answer in detailing other than trial and error

 

[Tequipment]

No need to apologise, I appreciate your help. There aren't many companies that take the time to back up their products with advice and tips like you do.
I've ordered the Deluxe Mega Towel from Polished Bliss here in the UK, so I know I should have that bit right now. I can't get out there until the weekend because of work commitments, but I'll try a second coat on the Porsche with one side using the spit shine method and the other being left a decent amount of time to haze properly.

I'll be sure to update this thread in case anyone else has the same problem and finds this through a search.

 

[Poorboy]

Thank you .. we will be waiting to hear your results ..

 

[Pockets]

I'm going with it's the towel =) you should have a much more pleasurable experience with the DMT's you got

Humidity plays a huge role in any wax application as well

 

[Tequipment]

Thanks for the advice guys.
It's almost the weekend and I'm itching to get out there and try to get rid of this smearing. The Porsche is still in the garage so it's ready to go, but the Audi has got a weeks worth of dust and pollen on it and will need washing first. My DMT's have arrived, but not my QD+ yet. I've washed the DMT's as per the sticker on the packet and they're drying in the living room (I think I might be pushing my luck here!)

I've got another couple of questions (sorry).

I gave the Porsche rear engine cover a quick buffing today with a clean DMT and it didn't seem to make any difference to the smearing that was already there.
When I apply a second coat of Nattys, am I ok to apply it over the first coat which is smeary, or should I be finding a way to remove it? If I do this then am I running the risk of removing the Blackhole too?
I was hoping to try the QD+ to see if it could clean up the smeariness, but as it isn't here yet I'm tempted to try some Autosmart Reglaze my brother brought home from work. I know it's not one of your products and you may not even get it in the US, but I was hoping you may know if it's worth a try. If you're not sure then I won't risk it.

Secondly, the weather tomorrow is forecast to be the hottest day of the year so far, getting up to about 95F, followed by some showers in the late afternoon. The temperature isn't suppose to drop much when it rains, so I imagine it's going to get quite humid. Would I be better off waiting for another day, as the weather doesn't sound ideal for waxing? Or will I be ok before it rains. (That's probably a question for a meteorologist actually :roll: )

 

[Poorboy]

you can go right over the Natty's with more Natty's , it actually a ritual for some try the spit shine method since it will be real hot and use it like a Wipe On / Wipe Off type wax ... (wowo) you can do the same for the Audi after washing
Have a great weekend

 

[Tequipment]

Sounds like I'm going to be working up a sweat!
I assume the wowo method means I'll be using a very thin coat of wax on top of the very light mist of water and buffing off before it dries to a haze?
Should I expect to put in more elbow grease compared to the waiting for it to haze method?

 

[Poorboy]

you can try it both ways ... with and without the spritz of water or Spray & Gloss .... it should be easy either way

 

[Tequipment]

Made some excellent progress on the Porsche! I'll update with full methods and hopefully some photo's when I can get to use the laptop.
Doing the Audi in the morning, so hopefully the new method will be as successful as earlier.
Out of curiosity, which side of the DMT is meant for which process? The fluffier side for buffing?

 

[Poorboy]

first pass is with the fluffier side, smooth side is for buffing

 

[Tequipment]

Well, as promised here's an update.

Saturday was HOT again, so washing the Audi was out of the question as I haven't got any shade. I decided that as the Porsche was still in my garage that it was getting my attention first. Although it was in the shade, it was like an oven in the garage.

After the advice from Steve above, here's my process:

- Filled a squirty bottle with cold water and a couple of ice cubes to keep it cool.
- Ran my foam pad under warm water to softer it up and then squeezed as much water out of it as possible.
- Lightly misted a panel with water.
- The Nattys was quite soft because of the heat, so I dabbed (not wiped) the pad onto the Nattys on 3 sides to make sure it was evenly but lightly coated.
- I wiped it on the whole panel and then immediately wiped it off with the MF towel.
- I then buffed it with the DMT.

There were no smears at all using this method. It sounds long winded, but it only took about 45 minutes to do the whole car.
I found that after 2 panels I had to wring out the foam pad as it had soaked up the water from where it had been misted. I guess this is normal, but it may be that I'd used a little too much water. Using the spit shine method meant that the Nattys coated a lot more evenly and the extra lubrication meant that the pad moved a lot more smoothly over the car. Without the water I found that the pad went dry and grabby after doing about a quarter of a panel, but after misting it was possible to do a whole panel. Hopefully this still meant that I was getting some wax on the car, I'm sure it was.

Another thing I noticed was that the MF towel played an important role in getting rid of the smears (just as Pockets suggested). My initial removal towel was just a large blue fluffy MF as I knew this would get the most saturated with damp wax. My final buffing towel was the DMT.
After I was all finished and admiring my work, I noticed what I thought was a scratch, but turned out to be a cat hair. I grabbed my blue towel and wiped it off. This then left a load of smearing. It was only when I went back to the DMT that I could get rid of it.
I don't know if this smearing was because the blue towel had the initial wiping off of wax on it, or if it was down the the DMT being a better MF. Or maybe a combination of both.

Anyway, I'm over the moon with the outcome. Thank you for all the advice. A lot of people are too quick to blame the product, but as I'm new to all this I was pretty sure it was something I was doing wrong.

Please forgive the quality of the photo's below. They were taken with my phone and I couldn't get the cars out of my gate to get some decent pics, but I know everyone likes to see photo's though.

(I'm not sure why that extra Thumbnail Attachment is there, it said I wasn't allowed to upload it. I can't delete it either)

See if you can spot the Poorboys product placement :smt023

 

[Tequipment]

 

[Poorboy]

looks great, but only your opinion really counts glad we could help and yes quality mf does make quite a difference too

 

[Pockets]

Looks awesome! Great job